FTM and Trans Escort Directory & Adult Websites-Legal advice/help please?!

[ftmtransguy]

Hello everyone - newbie here so I apologise now if I'm making any faux pas' with this post.

I'm a UK based FTM Trans Guy (female-to-male; transitioned well over 19 years ago) and I'm really trying to get some legal clarity on several business/community service ventures I'm possibly launching.

Hoping one or two of you kind souls will be happy to help point me in the right direction to make sense of the legalities please!!  I thought I knew what was what but am now rather confused!!

Background:

I run several successful vanilla and non-trans businesses and am now turning my attentions to possibly helping those in the FTM community achieve their goals and educating the general public on sexuality in general.

Hoping to break down some walls, level the playing field for FTMs and contribute my voice to the whole understanding of what it is for every person on earth to simply be human as opposed to having to have a specific label/identity.

I stumbled across this after building quite a personal following from gay, bi, straight and trans guys/women on a sexual forum I joined a couple of years ago to discuss my bi-curious/pansexual feelings...

From this it's become apparent to me that there are many out there who would love a direct companionship experience with a FTM or are admirers of the FTM body. They just struggle to reach them. Totally challenged my pre-conceptions of sexual attraction etc.

I started googling around the subject - wanting to know what I personally could do with the following I've created. That's when I stumbled across Escorting, Saafe and also the UK National Escorts Association. Reading the information and postings from all I started to appreciate just some of what the pros and cons of the industry are. Totally humbled me and opened my eyes. Thank you all for that...Take my hat off to you all!

Of specific interest was the issue FTM Escorts in particular seem to be having in reaching their market and also knowing their own niche/worth.

As a business and marketing minded entrepreneur I started to conceive the idea of a putting a FTM Escort listing/directory service out there (not agency), specifically catering to FTM Escorts and their admirers. Appealing to a wide, global audience. After all my own direct forum chat experience is there is a market and it's not as small as made to believe.

The concept was to provide a simple directory platform - allowing independent FTM Escorts 18+ years who truly wish to offer companionship to admirers to list their website links there.

Would also be offering webdesign services for those wanting a fresh look or new escorts with no web skill/time. Also putting some specific services on there to try and help make it safer for Escorts both physically and mental health wise. It appears a very tough industry on the body and mind.

In fact, this aspect has really begun to concern me more as time has gone by...whilst some Trans folk genuinely enjoy their escorting I have chatted with one or two who have taken to escorting simply due to their Trans status...to pay for surgeries, hormones etc..they appear to feel that there is no other option for them due to the back foot they are starting on in simply just trying to realise the person they are inside on the outside. I personally know how tough that can be. One or two have even become HIV+ due to taking desperate action. 

So now I've also started looking into launching a FTM adult content (videos, photos (x and non x rated), live cams etc) website in order to offer FTMs who don't enjoy escorting a slightly 'safer', several steps removed option as well as a totally vanilla, academic FTM Trans / Sexuality Educational website and possibly even setting up a FTM Trans Modelling and Casting Agency for regular, vanilla contracts totally (non-sexual).

Basically I'm trying to:

1. Offer those who truly love what they do a FTM Escorting specific platform and marketing to allow them to independently reach out to their niche market. Also ensure they have access to safety information, health information etc.

2. Offer those who want to remain in Adult services but not physically providing companionship an alternative to reach a global marketplace via Adult content website. Also educate members of these sites about FTM bodies and sexuality as a whole.

3. Offer those who want to leave Adult work a viable non-sexual alternative via vanilla Trans modelling/casting agency.   

4. Educate the general public

A few FTM Escorts in USA have been in touch to say directory a great idea but they point out that with regards to Escort listings directory websites in general that other similar sites like Rentboy and AW are constantly being raided?! I assume that means by the police?? I am totally out of my depth in this respect and that's where I'd love some help/advice from any of you savvy people out there please.

From reading the content on UK National Escorts Association I was of the impression that directory listing and webdesign/platform services were not illegal and be of no interest to the Police/Law Enforcement Agencies? After all a service like this is not controlling or 'running' any of the independent Escorts on there. Simply charging a marketing fee so Independent Escorts can simply advertise their link to their websirte on the platform and/or a fee to design a website for any who need one?

Have I assumed incorrectly and if so is there any way around this? Or is this just an issue affecting overseas Escorts like in the US?

Sorry for the very long post but I felt it important to be clear who I am and what I am trying to achieve and motivations.

Good luck to all of you in all you do and if you want to chat back or I can help you in a particular way do feel free to get in touch.

All the best for 2017!

[amy]

I'm afraid I wasn't able to read all of it, but I'd point out that whilst I have no idea what the UK National Escort whatever is, neither prostitution nor advertising of prostitution is illegal in the UK.

Please do post a link to your directory once you've finished it and it's ready for advertisers.

[xw5]

For the viability of this, see the replies to other people thinking the world needs their directory.

The 'UK National Escorts Association' is not to be taken seriously on a number of levels and their legal section is particularly wrong.

But for the legality, yes, in the UK if you don't control someone's work - what an agency does, for example - you can gain from it, so directories are ok.

[VoluptuousCurves]

Sex work by individuals is not illegal in the UK. Don't know who told you AW was "raided" - I've never heard of this happening. Still, it would be appropriate to take legal advice before starting this venture.

I would say your primary barrier is going to be payment solutions. A lot of platforms won't work with adult services because of the high chargeback rates. Paypal, for example, won't touch you. Other services may charge premium fees. There are solutions but they generally cost more than the equivalent for non-adult products and services.

What you might want to do is start with the directory approach and give people a basic listing for free, but charge for extra features, e.g. an extended gallery, highlighted ads, etc. Test the waters before adding functionality such as cams, which would require you to take cash from your viewers and pay out your performers, adding a significant amount of complexity to your operating model.

You have a very niche market there, which is both a strength and a weakness. The fact that there are very few FTM escorts (in comparison to MTF or cis escorts) means that you wouldn't have to spend that much money on marketing, because you're not directly competing with anyone. The weakness, of course, is that the market demand is much smaller, which limits your end user base.

[ftmtransguy]

I'm afraid I wasn't able to read all of it, but I'd point out that whilst I have no idea what the UK National Escort whatever is, neither prostitution nor advertising of prostitution is illegal in the UK.

Please do post a link to your directory once you've finished it and it's ready for advertisers.

Thanks Amy - yes, apols was rather an essay I know! Appreciate you allowing me to discuss this and also come back to you with the directory links once/if established. 

[ftmtransguy]

For the viability of this, see the replies to other people thinking the world needs their directory.

The 'UK National Escorts Association' is not to be taken seriously on a number of levels and their legal section is particularly wrong.

But for the legality, yes, in the UK if you don't control someone's work - what an agency does, for example - you can gain from it, so directories are ok.

Thanks for this and the additional input on the UKNEA...it's a minefield!

[ftmtransguy]

Sex work by individuals is not illegal in the UK. Don't know who told you AW was "raided" - I've never heard of this happening. Still, it would be appropriate to take legal advice before starting this venture.

I would say your primary barrier is going to be payment solutions. A lot of platforms won't work with adult services because of the high chargeback rates. Paypal, for example, won't touch you. Other services may charge premium fees. There are solutions but they generally cost more than the equivalent for non-adult products and services.

What you might want to do is start with the directory approach and give people a basic listing for free, but charge for extra features, e.g. an extended gallery, highlighted ads, etc. Test the waters before adding functionality such as cams, which would require you to take cash from your viewers and pay out your performers, adding a significant amount of complexity to your operating model.

You have a very niche market there, which is both a strength and a weakness. The fact that there are very few FTM escorts (in comparison to MTF or cis escorts) means that you wouldn't have to spend that much money on marketing, because you're not directly competing with anyone. The weakness, of course, is that the market demand is much smaller, which limits your end user base.

Hi VoluptuousCurves - Really appreciate your detailed thoughts. Thanks so much  The raided bit came from a USA based Trans Guy who mailed me. I thought it sounded odd hence why asking. Perhaps he's mixing info up, I don't know.

Regarding the Adult content website - I'm working with a company who offer a platform that comes with payment systems that are approved/specifically provided for Adult content. As you say, doesn't come without a hefty premium though!

Just trying to work out a fair payment scheme for models at present. No idea regarding the industry standard/norm. Whether based on upfront payment for photosets, videos etc or payment to models on % basis...

Again I really value your input and advice - thank you so much. Do you offer business mentorship! Think you're hiding your light there

[VoluptuousCurves]

Hi VoluptuousCurves - Really appreciate your detailed thoughts. Thanks so much  The raided bit came from a USA based Trans Guy who mailed me. I thought it sounded odd hence why asking. Perhaps he's mixing info up, I don't know.

Regarding the Adult content website - I'm working with a company who offer a platform that comes with payment systems that are approved/specifically provided for Adult content. As you say, doesn't come without a hefty premium though!

Just trying to work out a fair payment scheme for models at present. No idea regarding the industry standard/norm. Whether based on upfront payment for photosets, videos etc or payment to models on % basis...

Again I really value your input and advice - thank you so much. Do you offer business mentorship! Think you're hiding your light there

I've been working in business a long time before starting sex work so I'm used to this type of project work

Most of your UK models/escorts will have used the AW system, which is set up for payout 70/30 in the model's favour. Have you joined AW with a provider profile to have a look around the platform and get a feel for how things work? There are a lot of things AW does "wrong" in many peoples' opinions (primarily that they are very biased towards punters in comparison to service providers) but they are the largest and most successful platform in the UK and they have many features which it would be worth considering for your site.

If you offered guys an option to sell their pics and video sets to you for a flat fee, and you'd then be able to rent them out to punters and keep 100% of the profits... I think that could be a very good option. The model gets the cash upfront, and you get a nice stream of passive income forever.

[amy]

I'm pretty sure the OP isn't a sex worker, VC.

[ftmtransguy]

@Amy - spot on! That's not to say that I didn't initially consider Escorting due to the following I've somehow acquired but I'm not sure I've got the bottle or mental stamina that I applaude you all so much for in order to go front line...I know my limitations...

@VC - great points again. Thank you so much. Will take a look at AW - it sounds as though there may be room to improve the business model for the market I'm thinking of catering for. When you say too punter orientated, can you be more specific as to in what way please? If more appropriate please feel free to PM me instead.

Thanks again to the Mods for allowing me to have this conversation and I apologised for originally posting in wrong section - wasn't quite sure where it or I (for that matter!) belonged 

[amy]

The reason you're having this conversation is because people are replying. I'd rather they were spending their posting time helping other sex workers since that's the purpose of the forum, but that's their prerogative.

If you're going to reread anybody's answer I'd recommend it's Ian/xw5's. That is, take a look through some of the other 'I've Got A New Directory' posts on this section and decide whether it's worth the enormous amount of time, money and effort involved when the return is likely to be comparatively miniscule.

[Mirror]

I'm afraid I wasn't able to read all of it, but I'd point out that whilst I have no idea what the UK National Escort whatever is, neither prostitution nor advertising of prostitution is illegal in the UK.

Please do post a link to your directory once you've finished it and it's ready for advertisers.

It's that directory which pretends to be some sort of authority, who I seem to remember had some mistakes in the legalities section of their 'guide'.

[ftmtransguy]

The reason you're having this conversation is because people are replying. I'd rather they were spending their posting time helping other sex workers since that's the purpose of the forum, but that's their prerogative.

If you're going to reread anybody's answer I'd recommend it's Ian/xw5's. That is, take a look through some of the other 'I've Got A New Directory' posts on this section and decide whether it's worth the enormous amount of time, money and effort involved when the return is likely to be comparatively miniscule.

No worries Amy. I support your sentiment, however, in a roundabout way this conversation is still helping other sex workers. Just pointed another Trans Guy who's contacted me towards Saafe as a welcoming and friendly forum...He's desperate to get into Escorting to fund surgery. Thanks again for the time people - now let you all get back to the real work

Amy - do please feel free to close this post so it doesn't detract any further from the work of Saafe. Will pop back to post the link to any directory if it launches. Love and light to you all.

[amy]

I don't need your permission to 'close' this or any thread, thank you. It'll drop down the board naturallly when people stop posting in it.

The best thing you can do to help the sex workers you know is direct them here so they can get peer advice and support from others doing the job, not attempt to speak on their behalf. I have no doubt they can speak for themselves, and in the meantime if you want to develop a website, I'd suggest a web developers forum.